In today’s episode you’ll learn:
- Brynley’s top tricks and tips for generating quick wins with Klaviyo email marketing
- Why email marketing has the power to build brand loyalty more than any other marketing approach
- Optimising Klaviyo marketing in conjunction with Facebook ads and social proof for the ultimate customer relationship
- Brynley’s keys to success (which includes a 4am wakeup and a treadmill in her office!)
Transcript:
Dahna Borg
Hi, and welcome to the Bright Minds of the eCommerce Podcast. I’m Dahna, founder of Bright Red Marketing, your eCommerce Advertising Specialist. Today we are here with Brynley King from eCommerce growth. Brynley is a technical specialist in advanced email marketing using Klaviyo eCommerce growth strategy and eCommerce conversion optimization. Brynley’s probably one of only two accredited Klaviyo Platinum partners in the Australia Pacific region, and is also the winner of the Australian women and digital Digital Marketer of the Year award 2018. I love this episode as Bryn shares amazing tips for email marketing. So get your notepad ready. Welcome to Episode 16.
Dahna Borg
Hi and welcome to the Bright Minds of the eCommerce podcast. Today we are here with Brynley, the founder of eCommerce growth. Welcome, Brynley.
Brynley King
Hello, how are you?
Dahna Borg
I’m good. I’m so so excited to have you on the show. Klaviyo and email marketing are obviously such a big thing in the business so I’m super excited to have you.
Brynley King
Thank you. And yeah, I’m really excited to be here today. Definitely love talking about all things Klaviyo. So yeah, great to be here.
Dahna Borg
Wonderful. So tell us a little bit about yourself and how eCommerce growth came to be.
Brynley King
Essentially, my name is Billy King. And I’m a technical specialist in advanced email marketing using Klaviyo eCommerce Growth Strategy, and eCommerce Conversion Optimization. And essentially, I’m the founder of eCommerce growth, which is a boutique Gold Coast-based agency for brands that would rather outsmart than outspend their competition. And proudly, I am a Klaviyo master Platinum partner and winner of the women in the digital marketer of the Year awards 2018. And just for the sake of sprinkling in some extra social proof, in 2020 alone, my small but mighty team and I generated more than 17 million Australian dollars for the small handful of Klaviyo accounts that we manage on an ongoing basis. So essentially, that’s me and eCommerce growth in a nutshell.
Dahna Borg
Amazing. So how did eCommerce growth start? Like what was kind of the moment that you’re like, I’m going to start this business? And how did it go from there?
Brynley King
So basically, in 2003, my mom had started a coconut oil brand on eBay. And so I was around 12-13 at the time and ended up working with my parents for 10 years after I left high school. And only a few years ago, my parents sold 85% of their company, and I was just at a bit of a crossroads because I guess at that stage asked you to all work to my parents were, were always kind of told that, you know, it would be a family business, and we would continue it on. And so when the sale kind of happened, it was like for the first time I was like, Oh my god, what am I going to do. And basically what had happened was is that the people who had or the, there were investors who invested into it, and there was a guy who was managing all of their funds. And he had asked me to go and work in their company, and our finance company. So doing like their digital marketing and things like that. So I essentially started working for them. And that was like the moment where I really realized that you know, digital marketing and finance was definitely not something I’m interested in, love the rush of, you know, hearing the Shopify chaching every time a sale comes through.
Dahna Borg
Just satisfying noise.
Brynley King
And so from that point, I was like, I’m going to leave here. And yeah, just came home one day, my partner said, I’m leaving my job, and I’m going to go out and do digital marketing and freelance. And so yeah, I ended up freelancing and really grinding for about two years. My clients know that at that stage, I was doing crazy hours. And then I got to a point where it was kind of like, you know, I really need a bit of my life back. Need to spend more time with my partner, family, friends, that kind of thing. And so yeah, started, went through a recruitment company started hiring. And that’s where kind of eCommerce growth is today. So we’ve officially been a company since February 2020, I guess writers COVID was happening. But yeah, so far, everything’s been really amazing.
Dahna Borg
Amazing. What started your love for Klaviyo specifically, and why do you like it preferred to other platforms?
Brynley King
So really interestingly, when my parents before they sold, they had spent monitor like $45,000-$50,000 on a custom-built website. It was completely customed. So anytime I ever wanted like a pop-up or an opt-in on the website, they would send us through a bill for like $2,000 to develop that. And I kept saying to Mom, this is not sustainable from a marketing perspective. Like I want to be doing so much stuff on the site, but I’m just so limited with what we have. So I basically said to her, look, let me just do like a mock-up website on Shopify. Let’s move it over and see what we can do and you know, we obviously won’t turn it live into be happy with it. So I basically did that and I was going through doing some like Digital Marketer courses at the time as your Five Stones one Lackey’s eCommerce mastery. And I saw him raving about Klaviyo. This was probably back in 2015-2016. So I built the Shopify store, mom loved it. So we did the full migration over. And then I incorporated Klaviyo into the store. So we moved from MailChimp to Klaviyo and I just fell in love with it, everything that we could do was just yeah, that was kind of like the first time that I truly kind of found out about the capabilities and everything. So yeah, that’s where it all kind of started.
Dahna Borg
Amazing. So when you start working with a new client, what are some other kinds of first things that you do to get some kind of quick wins under your belt?
Brynley King
Oh, so in terms of quick wins, I guess we have a whole other side of it, where we’ll go through and work out all of their strategies. So if we are crafting that brand’s Klaviyo strategy for them, will pretty much go through first and do an account power audit. And so then we go through and review all of the possible third-party integrations and we start all of the opportunities, areas, and things like that. And then from there, we’ll typically start with quick wins. So we’ll go through straightaway, revise all of their opt-ins on the website, go through and set up for them like delete as, opt-in and welcome flow, welcome series, abandoned cart flow, and emails, as well as like they’re added to cart and browse abandonment. So that’s typically the first quick wins that we do. And then from there, we’ll kind of go through on to our next step of the strategy, while those kinds of those flows are turned on just in terms of you know, getting some revenue while we’re working on more of the strategy side. And we’ll actually go through them and review the last 12 months of data and work out that if the brand does want to double in 12 months, and what is the number of new customers that average order value, and then the repurchase frequency, what that needs to be to get them there. So there’s a guy by the name of Drusen Aki, I don’t know if you’ve heard of him before, but he’s such a powerhouse in the eCommerce community. And so he actually has this method that if you focus on those three leaders, and increasing each one of those by 30% age, then you’ll be able to double your revenue in 12 months. So then it has an emphasis that you’re not just 100% focused on new customer acquisition, and that you’re actually growing in a profitable way, essentially, by also focusing on your average order value and your repeat customers too. Yeah, and then I guess from thereafter we’ve gone through and done all of their like growth metrics and things like that, we’ll then list out all of the flows and opt-ins that can be built within the account. And then we’ll essentially go through and look from a campaign perspective, crafting out each quarter’s campaign strategy, that kind of depends if we’re working with them on an ongoing basis, or if we’re more so, kind of structured and just working on the flow side. And then from there, it’s then more implementation. So that’s kind of how we structure it at eCommerce growth.
Dahna Borg
Amazing. So when you were talking initially about going through and kind of reviewing people’s Add To Cart like the abandonment and welcome flows and things for those listening is there any kind of tips and advice of things that you’re looking for that are really easy fixes to kind of bring in some extra revenue?
Brynley King
I guess something that I see that’s not in everyone’s account, and just simple things like the browser abandonment view product tracking isn’t set up correctly, or the added to cart abandoned/cart tracking snippets aren’t set up. Other things I say all the time and something for, like, all listeners that if you are, like, frequently changing your Shopify theme file, always make sure you make sure you’re like pushing through the integration with Klaviyo again, just so you can kind of ensure that all of that data is tracking in. So only recently, I was just looking at a brand’s account that we’ve done a setup for quite a while ago and I’ll still jump into accounts just to kind of see what’s going on and to look for the tracking and I’ve noticed that they’ve moved to a new theme, hadn’t updated the tracking so I had I sent them an email it’s like Hey guys, just letting you know that I’ve jumped in and I’ve seen that your tracking is not working so I went in there and did that for them but yeah, definitely something to always think about when you are changing the files.
Dahna Borg
Yeah, brilliant. So for those listeners that are using you know simple email programs like MailChimp, do you have any advice for them, and then when would be the, like the right time to switch to something more advanced like Klaviyo?
Brynley King
My advice is to move.
Dahna Borg
Is there like a point where you’re like I’m spending enough money that now’s the time to move we’ll just move?
Brynley King
Even if you’re just starting out like the best thing to do is just start on the best, the best, you know, platform. And I guess when you think about it from a cost perspective if it’s costing you 100 USD a month, you only have to work depending on if your average order value is $100. You need to get one sale to kind of get a return. It definitely is something that I say to many brands like kind of focusing on the costs of apps and things like that, and they kind of can get really hung up on it, but I definitely feel like you know, if you are going to do things properly, spend the money and use Klaviyo and then, for example, say, for example, we’ve like review based apps and things like that you saw something more cheaper, like judge me over something quacker Kendo, do you know what I mean? So you can kind of if you’ve got a budget for apps and things like that, yeah, 100% spend the money on Klaviyo.
Dahna Borg
Scott from Kendo is going to be very sad. I’m a big Kendo fan.
Brynley King
I am, like, flying the flag every day to all of the brands. The whole integration that they have now with Klaviyo is just phenomenal. Like having pull in. If any new listeners have a look on Google just type in “skims abandoned cart email example”, you’ll be able to see like Kim Kardashian skims brand and how they using your kendo to like you know design that emails and that’s just how incredible Kendo’s integration is with Klaviyo. Now, it looks so amazing. So yeah, I love her Kendo, I really do.
Dahna Borg
Scott will be happy now. So let’s get back on just not talking about a Kendo. Going back to Klaviyo. What’s the best way to craft a brand email strategy? Like is there a process you go through, like if someone’s doing this on their own, what’s kind of the best way to go about doing that?
Brynley King
Pretty much kind of like how I had mentioned before, definitely go through and kind of just conduct a bit of a power audit. So go through and see what are the different types of flows you can have in the account. If you’re just starting out, have a look in the Browse flow section, and go through there and see if that if anything fits the brand and the type of products that you’re selling. Another really important step is to review all of your third party Shopify apps, there are so many integrations, I’ve actually got a call today with the team at gorgeous because now they’ve got a phenomenal Klaviyo integration, there’s definitely so much that you can do once you’re kind of connecting all of your customer data and touchpoints together, and so many extra flows that can be built depending on what third party apps you’re using. So that’s definitely a tip there. And then from there, just kind of list everything out. So really good to kind of get into a Google doc and just write you know, whatever they flow so or would review base flows work, all of these different types of things just go through and listed all out. And then from there, get started with kind of prioritizing, then, alright, what’s going to make me the most money, or say, for example, your wingbacks. I know, personally from looking into account, when back start really to as much as what kind of you say online where everyone’s like focus on these, there’s definitely more others that you should focus on first. But yeah, it’s just about just putting everything down onto a piece of paper and then going through and implementing, and that’s one thing I see in so many accounts. And I’ve even had projects before where I’ve had a brand say to me, Bryn, we just want you to build the flows, we’ll take care of all of the design and the copy and everything like that. And I’ve still had accounts where two years later, nothing will be done. So I’ve seen this so many times, and I always feel like the email is like the forgotten child of the digital world. Like, people, just kind of have all of this focus on more of the external, you know, customer-facing stuff like socials and ads, and, you know, that’s all-important. But if you really are trying to grow, you really need to have a focus on email. And it’s definitely something that I see brands is not putting a lot of time and effort into. So yeah, just take action.
Dahna Borg
I mean…
Brynley King
Get shit done.
Dahna Borg
As we were talking prior to this call, one of my clients has that ad account shut down, because Facebook’s AI is on a rampage. And the only reason they’re still making sales right now is because of their email marketing. So you definitely want to kind of focus on building those things if you can.
Brynley King
Yeah, definitely. Yeah, it’s such an important part of it. So yeah, just get in and get stuff done.
Dahna Borg
100%. So obviously, to have an email marketing campaign, you need a list and you need lots of people on that list. So what are some of your favorite ways to build an email list? Because I know that’s something a lot of people struggle with.
Brynley King
Yeah, definitely. So I guess your opt-in strategy is just so incredibly important. And essentially, it’s the top of your marketing funnel, and how you’ll be able to cookie browsers with further flows such as your browser abandonment, your added to cart, abandoned carts, even with tracking snippets, such as like viewed page and then having flows based off if they’ve viewed your sizing guides or anything like that. So it’s really important, especially using a tool like Klaviyo that your opt-in strategy is kind of really Paramount, and that you’re really thinking about it. And so, with that, there are two ways to think about your opt-in strategy. And that is if you’re a brand that wants to incentivize or a brand that does not. So I know for a lot of the brands we work with, we have such a mix of brands that are really happy to incentivize, and then I have brands that flat out refused to, which is completely okay. For me as a marketer, that’s great, because then that means that I’ve got to think outside of the box and do other different things, to do that for them. And yeah, I’m very passionate about ensuring that every person I work with remains as profitable as possible. So in saying that, you can definitely use some methods such as competition-based opt-ins, so that’s one that won’t devalue your brand, or give away $10 or 10% off with every order. And it’s pretty much a strategy that I rolled out with every single brand I work with because it just goes nuts. And so I guess some other kind of tips I had on that was to, when this is something I’d love to hear your thoughts on, is to why definitely recommend to all the brands we work with to be running Facebook lead ads to their Klaviyo account and thinking about the customer lifetime value of those leads, rather than the return on ad spend. So I recently just had a client asked me to run a report on the link ads that they were spending $12,000 a month of their Facebook ad strategy to acquire. And she was pretty much questioning, you know, like, is this worth it. And so what I did is I went into the Klaviyo account, I exported, then a list of everyone or a segment of everyone who had purchased and then from there, I exported them the CSV file from Klaviyo directly all of the data within there. So you can get so much you can get the customer lifetime value, historical orders, how many times a purchase, like you literally get, I think it’s about four different pages that you can kind of go over of data that you can export. And so from this one scenario, this particular client had 55 customers who had purchased. And it was worth just under $13,000 in customer lifetime value. So I essentially said to her, keep running, the ads. Don’t stop. And it’s just something I kind of hit. Yeah, I’m interested to hear your thoughts on this because I hit barriers all of the time with brands that are working with others, like agencies that don’t want to kind of affect the brand’s return on ad spend in that way, and that they’re pretty much just focused on conversions. They’re not really focused on lead ads or anything like that. So yeah, interested to hear your thoughts on that.
Dahna Borg
Yeah, I mean, you mentioned this previously, when we were talking just in preparation for this interview, I think it’s genius. I think I understand why other brands, marketing agencies don’t want to do it because a lot of them are so caught up in that return on ad spend. And so many clients are caught up on that.
Brynley King
Yeah.
Dahna Borg
In Facebook return on ad spend. But most of my clients, we kind of work more on a, how is the business doing as a whole?
Brynley King
Yeah.
Dahna Borg
And like, for instance, I’ve got a couple of subscription-based businesses. And with a subscription-based business, most of the time, you’re losing money from a Facebook ads perspective. And that’s fine. Because the whole point is that if you’re doing your subscription-based business really well, your lifetime value is amazing like they’ve subscribed, it might have cost you money to get them the first time. But if they’re, your product is amazing, and you’re going to keep them for the next 12 months, doesn’t matter that you lost money on the first month because you’re going to keep them for the next 11. And now you’re making lots of money. So I think it’s definitely a brilliant strategy to increase that mailing list like we’ve got one client that email list has an average order value of like two or three times anyone else like there’s a specific component of that list. Like it’s just, it’s so powerful to get people on that email list that if you can, even if it’s costing you more than you think it should cost you to build that email list. It’s 100% worth it. So…
Brynley King
I might be rolling that out with some of my clients. You know, it is even to if it costs like $1 or $2 per lead to acquiring them. Just think about it like you now can go back and remarket back to them with campaigns, with flows, like there’s just if you think about the cost, then per lead, and I guess it does take potentially then a little bit more time for them to actually become a customer. But once they’re on that list, there’s just so much more you can kind of do with them as well. So I definitely, like from that perspective, something just to think about.
Dahna Borg
I think it gives you a better chance to build a relationship with customers. Like I think I forget sometimes in digital marketing, we’re talking to people here. Like, just because someone’s a one Facebook guide does not make them a loyal customer. And if you can get someone from a Facebook ad onto your mailing list, they get invested in the brand, they like the brand like that’s the kind of stuff that they start talking about their friends, they tag you on Instagram, like you build a relationship with them. Like most people that I know especially those that are in business aren’t in business because they just want to like make bucket tons of money and screw their customers. Like they’re in it because they have a product that they love, they want a community that, you know really responds to their product. Realistically getting them on a Facebook ad, getting them to buy from you, you haven’t really built a relationship, like you might have got a sale, that’s great. And obviously, now they’re on your list, they’re going to get your emails. But if you can kind of work out how to build relationships with people, rather than just trying to like throw market against them, I think you’ve got a much better chance of having a really successful business and a customer base that loves you, because that’s where you get really good businesses.
Brynley King
Yeah, definitely, definitely. I also had on that like one other tip, I just I’ve written some notes.
Dahna Borg
So just to clarify, we’ve got competitions, using a lead ad on Facebook to drive to Klaviyo, and what’s the last one?
Brynley King
So the last one, and this is one that I use all the time also do with every ad brand we work with. And that is using a Klaviyo-based embedded form on a Shopify base, you know, subscribe page, for example, brand name.com forward slash subscribe, and promoting that page to your Instagram stories, swipe ups. So this is something that I actually sent an email to a brand only just a couple of days ago. And so I’ve created that form for them back in February 2020. They’ve got a really great reach on their organic, you know, Instagram stories. And through that method they’ve gained just so when I reviewed this data, they’ve gained just under 16,000 subscribers. And the customer lifetime value of those subscribers alone had just hit over a million dollars. And that was the email I was sending them to let them know that just through that one organic method that they were using a go in the drawer to win two times $200 competition vouchers that Yeah, over a million dollars in customer lifetime value just through that. So if you think about it from the perspective, when this is what I read in the email, it’s been $6,000 on recommended retail price gift vouchers to grow their list organically through Instagram Stories swipe ups, to get that type of return. So 100%.
Dahna Borg
Incredible. Yeah, I think that’s the thing. Like they think people get a little bit stuck in like, how do we do this? And like they rely on organic growth for the list, ie, I’m not doing anything to grow my list. And then kind of wonder why things aren’t working. But I think the suggestions you’ve given in terms of growing that list. If you’re giving me sending out an email, and every email is making, you know, $3,000 $10,000, whatever it is, $500. Why wouldn’t you invest in growing that list so that that can double?
Brynley King
Yeah, exactly. And you know, what else is really important, actually did this just for another client. And they just recently, when you’re thinking about your OPT in strategy, don’t just think of one thing. So I wrote out one the other day for a brand that had 11 different touchpoints alone. And that was based on if they’re an f0, which I like, whenever I work in accounts, I consider that as a frequency of zero purchases, I then had a strategy for f1. So anyone who is a customer, you know, there are so many different things you can do in so many different touchpoints. So don’t just kind of get focused on one thing and kind of neglect things. Like sit down and think about, you know, I can incorporate Instagram Stories swipe up strategy, I can have Facebook lead ads, I can have a mobile, desktop, and mobile and desktop f0 based opt-in on my site, I can also have a bit of messaging that’s going back to any previous customers that may be another mobile and another desktop specific opt-in. Like there are just so many different things that you can kind of think about, especially to like a foot is having to opt-ins in there. Another thing that I’m really passionate about is on your collection pages or even at the bottom of your product pages, having another opt-in there that kind of reiterate if you’ve got an offer or anything. So you’ve kind of got something across every single page of the sites is definitely Yeah, what I’m trying to say is there’s so much you can do.
Dahna Borg
Yeah, I think it just needs to be a focus for businesses, they need to be aware that it’s an important part of their marketing, and not be the kind of thing that gets pushed to the side and really focuses on it.
Brynley King
Yeah, definitely. Yeah.
Dahna Borg
So obviously, once you get people on your email list, Klaviyo has a real kind of specialty is in those flows and automation. That’s where it kind of gets its power from if you get off of brands, maybe one piece of advice on building out these flows and automation, what would that be?
Brynley King
Definitely, best advice I can give is just really deep segmentation. So essentially, one of the best things you can do within all of your flows is break it down if the person is an F0 or a frequency of zero purchase, or if they’re a customer. Because essentially, I guess, if you look through any of the like typical templates that you get when you started claiming your account, you’ll have like an abandoned cart started checkout metric, and then you’ll have one email that just gets recycled and goes to everyone but obviously using a platform like that, you want to be communicating to your customers differently. You know, you talk differently to your F0’s or your subscribers who have not yet converted differently to what you do to kind of your repeat customers. So I personally love, I personally love this new versus returning segmentation in all of the flows I do, just because I always get a lot of Intel from Facebook groups. So groups like she’s on the money, fantastic one for millennials, where you see them are going, Oh, I just abandoned carts to get discount codes.
Dahna Borg
So true.
Brynley King
We have so much saved, saved posts on my personal Facebook from seeing people at that because I build flows then to kind of combat against that. And anyone can do that. So say, for example, if you have an opt-in, that’s like get $10 off your first order, especially to with any of your flows like your browser abandoned, you’re added to cart abandoned, carts or your reach checkout based abandoned cart flows, have it segmented, and then reiterate that offer to people who have not yet converted, because they’ve still got that opt-in offer to use, you know what I mean? And then on the repeats, you may have something different, or you may not have anything at all. So just little things like that to think of and definitely to on that as well. If you are doing like say, for example, the new versus returning segmentation, you can then have personalization to anyone who’s returning you can use their first name because you know, 100%, that that’s come through from Shopify from that order. Just little things like that definitely help kind of your flow strategy. And also to think about other types of segmentation. So if your abandoned carts, if you have it like we segmented out by if anyone’s an international-based customer as well, if they don’t have another international store, or say, for example, if they’re they’ve incorporated New Zealand in the Australian Shopify store, for example. And so from that, I will then segment those people out because if you’re not getting free shipping to people in New Zealand, then don’t keep harping on about it with your newsletter, or you know, your email design in the headers, or the footers that you’ve got free shipping when you don’t. So just little things that really then allow you to target the content within the email to the right person.
Dahna Borg
Yeah, I think that’s so powerful. I think a lot of people use Klaviyo a little bit too much like MailChimp and just kind of sent blasts. And I think you’re not really using it to its full extent if you’re not making use of those flows and automation and really customizing everything.
Brynley King
Yeah, definitely like I mean at the moment. So at the moment, the abandoned cart reached checkout flow that I’m building for brands has 27 emails as a minimum, and it’s just very highly segmented. So yes, there’s disabled…
Dahna Borg
I’m getting 27 emails, but there are just 27 variations depending on what your behavior is like, That’s incredible.
Brynley King
I even to the day, I posted on LinkedIn, a video of a browser Betemit flow that I built, and it was 54 emails, but, what I have done with that browser benefit was I broke it down by category and then by-product. Because this particular brand had really high average order values, and they didn’t have a lot of products that they were selling. So I was able to kind of craft and build a flow that if they were browsing that specific product that was worth $15-$100, they’ll get a browse abandonment flow, but it’s not the dynamic block and doesn’t look like every other player based process impediment flow that, you know, that you’re getting, it was something that was very kind of tailored to what they were viewing and had a lot of social proof in there. And it was specific to that product. So there is so much you can do. And that’s where it’s kind of a matter of crafting the strategy and then putting the time into it. Even to like if it takes you a week to build something like that out. It’s worth it. Do you know what I mean? Like if you’re going to make so much money from it, and it’s just going to literally, you know, be live and making cash while you sleep. It’s definitely worth putting in the extra effort to kind of do little things like that within the platform.
Dahna Borg
Yeah, 100% of everyone is feeling incredibly overwhelmed now that their abandoned cart is supposed to have like 50 emails, where should someone start in doing that, because not everyone has the time to do that. Obviously hiring someone like yourself would be an option in that sort of a scenario. But if someone’s just starting out, or not necessarily just starting out, but they’ve been doing this for a while they’re using Klaviyo they have one abandoned cart email, like what’s maybe like some baby steps in between one abandoned cart, email and 52 variations.
Brynley King
So definitely do the first conditional split being if they are new versus returning customers. And then if you have an opt-in offer of say, 10% off your first order, or anything like that, reiterate that to anyone who has not yet converted so on your new customers’ path in those emails, be like Hey, and don’t forget, you’ve still got 10% off your first order.
Dahna Borg
Perfect. So that sounds less overwhelming. Like I was stressed and either it said out loud. I think it just goes to prove what’s possible. It’s like when people use me to run Facebook ads and they’re like, Whoa, how many ads are you running? Like, a lot of business owners don’t have the power to do that on their own.
Brynley King
Yeah, yeah. And I think as well to like just using that, that kind of simple strategy that I’ve given there, what I see time and time again is that people just continually throwing out discount codes everywhere. And so over time that can really start to devalue the brand. And you don’t want to do that you don’t want to train your customers to be abandoning carts to get that uncertain thing. So it’s really important that if you are giving someone a welcome, a welcome kind of discount code, and they haven’t yet used that, use the segmentation of the flows to keep reiterating the same code back to them. Otherwise, you’ll end up with all of these different flows, all of these different coupons, and then someone’s got four coupons that have been given or offered to them within like the first you know, 30 days. So think about it in that way, as well. But if you are giving out something, keep reiterating that back to them. And you don’t have to keep creating new ones. And I see this a lot, like, a lot.
Dahna Borg
Yeah, I think that’s great advice. Because obviously, you don’t want to keep discounting, you train people to hunt for the discounts, like they’re not gonna buy from you until you send them a discount if you start doing that. So I love that idea. I think that’s really good. All right, so for everyone that’s listening. Now that’s kind of thinking, Oh, God, where do I start with setting all this up? Have you got any advice on setting up that campaign strategy and kind of working out what it would be what it needs to look like? Obviously, you mentioned before going through flows and things in clay, vo and her getting some inspiration from there, but how would you actually advise someone on crafting that strategy for themselves?
Brynley King
Yeah, so from a campaign perspective, when whenever we’re going through to craft anyone’s strategies, I like to work personally in quarters, I don’t like to work month by month, because I feel like by the time you get everything sorted, the next month comes around, and I like to be really organized. So I’d highly recommend to think about q1, q2, q3, and q4. And think about it from that perspective. And whenever you are crafting out your campaign strategies, think about the segmentation again. So I know I’m kind of harping on this. But every time we send out a campaign, in any client’s account that we run the campaigns for, we split out each campaign idea into two segments. So it’ll be the F0 segment being a subscriber who’s not yet purchased. And then an F1’s plus segment, which is anyone who has been a customer of the brand before. And so the reason why we do that is kind of what I explained before, that if you do have an opt-in offer or anything like that, you can keep reiterating that back to your f0 his customers, and even to, like tailoring the content within those emails to suit so you know, I work with a couple of swimwear brands and for example, on the F0’s content with where you’d want to be overcoming objections to purchasing. So objections to purchasing when buying swimwear online, are all about sizing, how it’s going to fit, feel all of that kind of stuff. So when you’re then kind of sending out your campaigns, you can have more of an emphasis on that type of content in your F0’s campaign content. And then on your f1, if you know they’re a customer already, think about like on that type of content, you may not want to be like here by this design again, because you know, they’ve bought it, what are some other things that you can kind of sell to them. So there’s definitely I guess, back again, to the whole segmentation side of it, when you are crafting out your campaigns, it’s really kind of important to think about that. And then as well to start to think about your frequency. So whenever you are sending out your campaigns in that way in that structure, you can then go through and kind of say, all right, on my f0’s segment for this particular campaign, we converted $1,000 worth of new customers, And on the customer side of it. So the F1’s plus segment, we converted $10,000 worth of sales in repeat purchases. But we also had 50 customers or previous customers unsubscribe from the list. There’s so much different data that you can get when you’re kind of segmenting out everything like that. And it is Yeah, something to kind of consider because I, you know, I pull monthly growth reports and quarterly growth reports for all the brands we work with every month and every quarter. What I consistently seeing every single account is that more than 75% of the accounts we work with, all of their campaigns run on repeat purchases. So it’s a really interesting exercise, anyone listening. If you’ve got a campaign coming up today, tomorrow, next week, whatever, go out and do a segment, send the one campaign to the two, those two different segments, and see exactly how many new people you’ve converted. And then what are the metrics on the returning side and I guarantee you have like 75% of your sales will come from the repeat purchase side.
Dahna Borg
That’s a good interesting report to run and just fascinating kind of two ways for people to think about it. So now I love that. Before we finish up, do you have any other quick actionable tips you can offer our listeners?
Brynley King
Yeah, for sure. I’ve got a couple. I’ve just written something It’s down for. Definitely, a couple of things to think about when you’re building your signup forms is to build them specific for the device. So I know that I’ve mentioned this a little bit before, but um, if you’ve got a mobile-specific opt-in, that’s on a mobile device, it’s vertical, it’s suiting. You know, it’s suiting the device that people are using. Time and time again, I’ll see people with a really small opt-in, and I use a 27 inch iMac, and it just does not stand. So for the sake of conversion rates and getting more people to the mailing list, build-out to different forms. We do this in every single account that we work in will never have one form unless it’s an embedded form that will kind of be responsive per the device at a time. We do that in everyone’s account. And that’s just a stock standard. So yeah, definitely recommend doing that. Also, if you’re wanting to expand on your user-generated content, and your social proof, integrate your reviews Shopify app with Klaviyo, and segment all of your buyers who have not yet left a review, and send a campaign to them. So definitely, I’m really thinking about Black Friday, if this is something that you can do, at any time, you know, if you want to build on more reviews that are on your website, go and send out a review campaign. You can even to say for example, if you wanted to give an offer. So I tend to like gift cards to everyone who leaves a review, then create a submitted review flow. And you can branch it out by that versus, you know, someone who’s left a positive review, or someone that’s left a negative review and kind of have different emails that then goes back and talks to people, depending on the type of review that’s left. So that’s a really good one. I’ve actually had brands where we incorporate this, again, everyone we work with. And I’ve had brands that have had like 500 plus reviews in one day. That in fact, they put on their site. So that’s definitely something to test. Also another one just in terms of like the whole Facebook ad side of things that if you are wanting to build on some further social proof on your ads, use Klaviyo to drive comments and retargeting ads. And you know, you can use an offer, like leave your product experience story on a post and go in the draw to win about cha. There are some specific brands I see online, I’m always getting targeted with their ads. And I see hundreds of comments of customers, just leaving, like all of these kinds of comments about how incredible the product is. And if I just saw that ad, I wouldn’t really be that compelled. But when you see so many people leaving comments about how incredible it is, it’s like, oh my god, I need to try this. So it’s definitely something to test as well, too. Because I feel like the more people that you have commenting in your ads and talking about their product story, and, you know, sometimes we see ads we don’t know, how legitimate the brand…
Dahna Borg
You’re like, is this an actual brand? Or is this drop-shipped from nowhere? And it’s actually rubbish?
Brynley King
Actually…
Dahna Borg
All the time.
Brynley King
Yeah, so definitely, you know, there’s just so many little things within Klaviyo that you can use to really kind of just optimize things and push things even further. And I know from a Facebook ads perspective, that definitely is something in terms of a campaign, you can have, you can send it out, and then you can also then from a campaign perspective, build that into a flow that then is like kind of running on an ongoing basis.
Dahna Borg
Yeah, I love that, especially now that everything on Facebook is getting so expensive. Like if you can send an email to the customers that love you the most and be like, hey, comment on this ad, that is so much cheaper and more effective than trying to run a post engagement ad on Facebook, where now you’re just getting likes, which are useless, really, as terms of social proof, like getting social proof on Facebook ads these days is really, really hard. Because people don’t like to comment if they don’t feel like they need to unless they’re saying negative things, which is, you know, having that as a part of your Klaviyo strategy is so powerful. And adding that in, you know, it really does help when, as you said, like, give us that social proof that proves that it’s a legitimate business, that people actually like this product, and can be a really, really great way of kind of solidifying that. And then, in turn, you get a higher return on ad spend on your Facebook perspective.
Brynley King
Yeah, 100%. So I would recommend to any listeners to definitely test that. And it’s something that I mean, could take off now to put together a bit of a strategy, the email design, and think about as well to the offer that you want to give maybe it’s a more extensive gift card to try and get as many comments as possible. Like say, for example, a $500 gift card or anything like that, but I definitely feel like it’s going to help a lot. And it’s worth testing.
Dahna Borg
100%. And I have the thing with all digital marketing, though. It’s probably worth testing these things. Yeah. It may not work for your business. It may not work for particular industries, but it’s worth testing.
Brynley King
Yeah, definitely.
Dahna Borg
Anything else you think we’ve missed?
Brynley King
No, I think that’s pretty much everything. Yeah, I just covered a lot.
Dahna Borg
I heard things that minds will be blown.
Brynley King
Yeah, hopefully, the listeners have kind of Yeah, got some great value, I guess from the tips and hopefully that there’s things that you can kind of go away and think about today that you can incorporate into the account. And, as I said before, the most important thing you can do is just take action. You know, email is always like the Forgotten child of the digital marketing world, but you know, I’ve got a brand that I work with. And she says to me, that Bryn your my cheapest service out of all of the other like digital, you know, digital agencies that she’s working with in terms of like PR ads, Google ads, all of that different kind of stuff. And she always says to me, you know, Bryn your services are the cheapest, out of all of those, and you make the most money. So there’s just keep thinking about email in that sense that there is so much potential there and just take action, don’t leave anything. Don’t keep focusing on other things outside of it, make sure you are covering it as well, because it is something that definitely, especially with all of these changes with Facebook, and everything like that, is going to be something that’s definitely gonna help you in the future. So.
Dahna Borg
I specialized in Facebook ads and we still tell all our clients to make sure they got emails because, at the end of the day, Facebook is Facebook, and your emails are your own. Like it cost you nothing to send an email.
Brynley King
Definitely. It’s your own marketing channel, you’re not using a borrowed channel.
Dahna Borg
Exactly.
Brynley King
Yeah. I could rave about this.
Dahna Borg
Yeah. You keep on calling it the forgotten child, and I think it really is. And I think people kind of gave a bad record in the last couple of years but, someone said to me the other day that like, are your email open rates really bad or just sending really bad content? And I think that so, like, it’s so relevant ‘cause people just ignore emails, they don’t put effort into it and they think it’s not working as well.
Brynley King
Yeah.
Dahna Borg
And it kind of, it goes from there. Like I think it’s really important to focus on because you own it.
Brynley King
Yeah
Dahna Borg
And as you said repeatedly, if you do it really well, you’ll make a lot of money.
Brynley King
Yeah. Also, something to think about is just something that popped into my mind. When you are thinking about your frequency of how many emails you wanna send, think about, do you wanna be known as a brand that is spammy? Or do you wanna be known as a brand that’s kind of more tasteful? So, something that probably should think about. I had brands before that, you know, are insisting on sending like an email every second day, and I definitely kind of see it from like a difference where we are in the world, Australians, or definitely not people that are very kind of aggressive in terms of their sales and marketing approach. So, sometimes less is more, in that sense. So yeah. Think about, do you want your brand associated with spam? I’ve even been to digital marketing conferences before where they’ll actively speak about, like a certain, you know, certain marketers who just send an email every day, like, super aggressively.
Dahna Borg
I don’t know anyone that opens that many emails.
Brynley King
Yeah.
Dahna Borg
So then just get deleted? Unless it’s like, yeah, like, unless it’s like super exciting, you’re better off to send them less and make them really make them email people want to open.
Brynley King
Yeah, definitely. And think about the content within it. Like I guess that even kind of folds into like your social strategy. You don’t need to be posting two times a day on Instagram, but make sure like when you are posting, that it’s something that’s really important that people want to listen to. And it’s not just more content for the sake of content, if that makes sense. Yeah.
Dahna Borg
100% I think that’s just good digital marketing advice.
Brynley King
Yeah.
Dahna Borg
So here’s gonna get onto the last few questions that we ask everyone. Do you have any strategies retains or habits that you follow everyday to help you stay on track?
Brynley King
Oh, yeah. So pretty much. I’m in a kind of a really good routine at the moment. I wake up at 4am and never used to be this person ever. I was the person who was getting…
Dahna Borg
Oh my god. No.
Brynley King
Or am this was like my past life when I didn’t have any staff and it was only me. So yeah, good habits. I still start the day nice and early. About 4am getting into the office as soon as I can before anyone else. That’s pretty much it. I find yet I’m a really productive person if I am. Yeah, like really early.
Dahna Borg
No one wants to talk to me if I got up at four o’clock in the morning. It’s not my thing. Like, no it’s not a thing that works for me, but I’m glad it works for you. I love like asking that question, because everyone’s answers so different.
Brynley King
Yeah. Oh, I also have another too. I just recently bought a treadmill for the factory like where we work just because I thought when I’m on calls to be able to be productive…
Dahna Borg
You use the treadmill?
Brynley King
Yeah.
Dahna Borg
Cool. That’s good. I contemplated that the other day.
Brynley King
Depending on the type of meeting, obviously, if it’s a zoom meeting, and I can’t, and you know, I guess depending on how serious the conversation I can’t be a little bit too puff talking. Yes.
Dahna Borg
Best thing I did was buy air pods because I like walk backwards and forwards across the office when I’m talking. You can’t sit down and talk but I mean, obviously do meetings. You have to podcast you have to. But half the time, I’ll be like walking backwards and forth.
Brynley King
Yeah.
Dahna Borg
Yeah, I need a treadmill too. Do you have a favorite business book?
Brynley King
Oh, yeah. Barefoot Investor, Profit First, Jason ANdrew: Stark Naked Numbers, anything financial, I think. Yeah. Best fundamentals you…
Dahna Borg
Profit First changed my business.
Brynley King
Yes.
Dahna Borg
Such a good book.
Brynley King
Me too.
Dahna Borg
Even to Jason Andrew’s Stock Naked Numbers book. He actually work with me so he’s kind of like the external CFO for ecommerce growth.
Brynley King
SPO financial, isn’t he?
Dahna Borg
He is on the podcast in the next couple of weeks.
Brynley King
Amazing. Amazing. Oh my god, honestly, best thing I ever did in my business was work with Jason and the team. My whole company. Everything’s changed. Yeah, it’s incredible. I really recommend anyone listening go…
Dahna Borg
I might have to read his book before that episode.
Brynley King
Yeah, because he I guess he does specialize in ecommerce brands and digital agencies. And just yet the value of what he has even the audit I got that I had done by them was just incredible. And yeah, really, highly recommend anything in terms of like business requires, I think, starting with, like financial literacy first to anyone in business, because I do come across his, and I have, I’ve experienced this in the past with our family business, you know, your financials of your businesses, the most important thing that you can kind of do so if you are starting out a business, and you’re not essentially that financially savvy. Just spend the time read those three books, and definitely, yeah, have a chat with Jason Andrew. He’s phenomenal.
Dahna Borg
Yeah, I 100% agree with that. I mean, the number of times we get into Facebook ads, clients accounts, start having conversations with him about money because I need to know like margins and you know, lifetime value of clients and things that they don’t know these things.
Brynley King
Yeah.
Dahna Borg
It’s just so important to know the numbers behind your business.
Brynley King
Yeah, definitely. I see this time and time again, I guess as well, too, from the service providers perspective. I’ve had chats with him where he gives me calculators to know exactly like, what is the money that I need to be recouping back to brands depending if their computer product or if they’re manufacturing dependent on the margins? Like there’s just Yeah, he’s really really great everything he teaches everything he does that I think…
Dahna Borg
I’m so excited to have him on the show.
Brynley King
He’s really he’s really good, life changing.
Dahna Borg
Amazing. Favorite podcast?
Brynley King
E-commerce Influence by Austin Brawner. I think that’s his last name. He is the guy from Brand Growth experts. I first actually heard him speak and present at the Klavier Boston event in 2018. He’s really good. Phenomenal.
Dahna Borg
Wonderful. And if people want to get in touch with you, what’s the best way to do that?
Brynley King
Subscribe to my mailing list.
Dahna Borg
Perfect.
Brynley King
I’m not really active on socials. Yeah, E-commerce Growth doesn’t even have its its own Instagram page. But I guess yeah, I think we’re just so deep in client work, that we’re not really a brand or we’re not really an agency that posts a lot on socials. But in terms of the email content we send out, we send out really good solid advice. And it’s definitely Yeah, it’s a good mailing list. So jump on.
Dahna Borg
Amazing. And you’ve got an e-commerce marketing calendar that you wanted to share?
Brynley King
Oh, yeah, as well to there is a blog on our website on brynleyking.com you can actually go in there and download like a 2021 eCommerce marketing calendar. It covers all the different channels it’s really comprehensive. So yeah, if you want a freebie and you’ll be signed up for an email list.
Dahna Borg
Will have that link in the show notes for everyone.
Brynley King
Yeah, I love that I’m practicing what I preach.
Dahna Borg
It’s amazing. I mean, realistically you should be. If you’re like, you should contact me with carrier pigeon or on Instagram because we’re really good at Instagram. I become a like, but the the email person saying saying you know, join up to our mailing list. Perfect response.
Brynley King
Yeah.
Dahna Borg
Love it. Well, thank you so much. It’s been an absolute pleasure having you on the show, and I think you shared some really great information. So thank you again.
Brynley King
Thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.
Dahna Borg
Thank you for listening to the 16th episode of The Bright Minds ecommerce podcast. Don’t forget we load all of the links and show notes onto our website including the link to the marketing calendar download Brinley shared. You can find everything at www.brightredmarketing.com.au/shownotes/episode16. The link will also be in the episode description. Thanks so much for listening.
